First Look - 2hip’s New Groovetech Steering System
FatTony
- August 26 2008
- 6,338 views
- 59 comments
Ron Wilkerson drove down to our office last week to show us a revolutionary new product that he’s been working on under wraps for the past 18 months. Ron hopes that his new Groovetech Steering System will become a staple for BMX bikes like the Pivotal seat has become over the last few years. Check out the first sample of this patent pending product and look for a full interview with Ron W. about this and more coming soon.
There are multiple patents pending on the different facets for this invention. The idea that Ron kept saying is, “Your bars will never move again.” The bars and stem have splines similar to the spindle on Profile type cranks to prevent your bars from slipping. Then the other side of the stem has three grooves that match up with grooves on the fork steer tube so your stem can’t turn side to side.
The idea sounds great and these photos are of the very first prototype and Ron says it still has a long way to go. We are pretty excited to see where this product ends up in the future. What do you think? Let us know in the comments and look for the full interview with Ron Wilkerson soon.
Photos by Fat.
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August 26th, 2008 at 2:57 pm
I remember my friend and I tossing this idea around a few years ago only to come to the conclusion that by allowing those surfaces to give under an extreme impact it keeps your bike from self destructing. Lets see would I rather bear the inconvenience of moving my bars or straightening my stem after bailing out of something or have to buy new bars or forks because they bent/cracked because the energy from the impact had nowhere to go but straight to the tubing or weld? The stem/steerer tube junction isn’t as big deal cause your they have the ability to spin around, but nuts to having a fixed stem/bar junction.
August 26th, 2008 at 4:01 pm
i think it 100 percent perfect. I love to have my bars set up so they dont move after bailing/crashing. Its just a bitch to have to get your tools out and reposition your bars after each bail. So this is the perfect solution, and looks like a really dialed and clean design.
August 26th, 2008 at 4:26 pm
Looks like a good idea, and I see it being functional. However, I dont see them being able to produce a steerer tube that is perfectly clocked on the fork. If the tube is a little off there is nothing you can do to change that and the stem will be off center. I think the splined bar/stem combo will work great, but the steerer tube/stem interface will not work out in production.
August 26th, 2008 at 4:29 pm
im stoked on the splined stem and fork, ive had that idea for a while but didnt see it as to practical that the whole industry would adapt ;like they did with the pivotal
August 26th, 2008 at 5:11 pm
i think the whole idea is sick!
when and where can i get one?
and how good are they, like, are the actually stip and slip resistant?
post more stuff about!
totaly stoked on the idea.
August 26th, 2008 at 5:25 pm
no one is going to adapt. adapting to pivotal costed people 40 bucks, adapting to this will cost 200+. i would also say every time my bars ever slipped, it probably saved my wrists from breaking.
August 26th, 2008 at 6:47 pm
How would a two piece bar be constructed? The four piece bar being used has a oversized tube for the clamping area.
There is nothing new to this idea. Someone finally just took a stab at making it.
In my opinion laser etching tick marks on the fork, stem and bars would be a great idea for helping center fork/stem and setup bars/stem. I know this isn’t the same thing as what’s going on here but it is satisfying one part of the idea here.
August 26th, 2008 at 7:24 pm
ill stick with my bars moving. theres a reason why ur bars move!! u hit way to hard… ur bars stay where they are. all the shock is going to ur wrist=broken wrist?? broken wrist plus paying ALOT more. ill pass!!!!
August 26th, 2008 at 7:30 pm
Honestly the worst idea in bmx.
Imagine you ride into a wall pretty fast with a normal fork and stem, you hit the wall and the bars turn saving you a little injury and absorbing some of the impact created.
Imagine hitting the wall the same speed with this spline idea.
You will receive 100% of the force created. Causing maximum injury to the rider. Also bailing 100% force will be taken by the bars, most likly bending them - Usually with a normal stem it would move and could save the bars a bit better.
If it’s for flatland thats a different matter and could be ok.
August 26th, 2008 at 7:43 pm
Gross, you could have showed me that and said what company is designing this? Then I would have said… 2hip
August 26th, 2008 at 8:14 pm
same reason i leave my brake lever loose i dont like my stuff bent.
August 26th, 2008 at 8:34 pm
jenkins alley bongo, you don’t know what you’re talking about. you are clueless if you think that’s the worst idea in bmx…do your research. and you’re saying that this idea sucks because you’ll get hurt??? then you shouldn’t be riding a bike dude….
anyway
it’s a good idea that has a flaw…when bars slip it’s because of a huge impact…i wouldn’t want that impact to just be absorbed by soft aluminum in the stem and having to buy a new one. i’m just fine with the bars slipping .that way i know that the bike didn’t break, it just slipped, which is fine…carry around a 6mm.
though this could be applied in different areas…seats maybe….
August 26th, 2008 at 8:42 pm
only thing is if you wanted to cut your forks they would have to make the splines longer
August 26th, 2008 at 10:02 pm
Jon is spot on. Coming from a engineering and machinist/welding background, this isn’t going to be any sort of break through. Take a look at the history of BMX. It’s full of gimmicks from companies who (no offense) are looking for any means to make a name for themselves. In this case, a once very influential and trend setting company (i.e. the once great company of the wilkerson airlines days), seems to be scrapping to get their foot back in the door. Sorry, I just don’t see it happening with this particular idea. A set-up such as this would defintley mean bent bars, broken welds, and money money money. Not even slightly appealing to us ratty young scrappers.
August 26th, 2008 at 10:33 pm
looks like a bag of dicks.
I have massive respect for Ron Wilkerson but 9/10 times in the last few years eveything I see about 2Hip makes me ask myself what the fuck they’re smoking.
all in all it’s a good idea but I dont see the point. I dont think people have an overall problem with bars moving every day, not enough to warrant this. and if you do you’re probably not properly adjusting your stem, or those original slam bars need to be replaced.
August 26th, 2008 at 11:58 pm
i can see the stem and fork being keyed like that so that your bars are stem are 100% inline with the bike that seem like a good idea but im not so sure about the spline system with the bars and stem….it would work it no one ever crashed
August 27th, 2008 at 12:57 am
a) as a machinist i can say without a doubt this will prove too costly to ever produce and be able to be sold a price anyone would actually buy. it is possible to make and good idea at face value, but really nothing to be too excited about.
b) there will inevitably be ’slop’ between the fit of the splines on the fork tube and the stem right out of the box due to tolerancing of the parts, and remember what happens to your stem after years of use..that gap that lets the stem clamp down gets SMALLER, because the aluminum is streching. as a splined stem streches or distorts it will likely not line up anymore (or manage to clamp without wiggling around) and guess what? U need a new stem. that costs twice as much a your old normal one!
August 27th, 2008 at 3:14 am
i have a lot of respect for ron wilkerson and 2 hip but
i think this is a half thought out idea
and honestly none of this is exactly new
i have 8 or 9 sets of old four piece bars laying
around that have small splines on the clamp area
but they dont have matching splines in the stem
but they worked perfect 10 years ago and now if you take the
time to tighten your stem right then i can look at some of the old razor type scooters i have laying around and they all have
a single large goove going all the way up the head tube
and yeah it keeps everything straight until you beat on it
or drop a few times and the aluminum starts to give
and wallows out let alone this is aluminum on steel
what if those splines start to chip or round of from an impact or improper installation there would be no hope of it being tight
as far as cost its not a big deal i see people spending hundreds
of dollars to get rid of ounces from there bikes but
the idea of this being the new standard of bmx is over the top
August 27th, 2008 at 3:18 am
people crash..people get hurt..thats life take it or just keep bitching like everyone else is..the shits alright..could look a lil better none the less lol..but its alright..and give the dude a break HE’S not even done with it..geezzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzze..
August 27th, 2008 at 4:16 am
looks like the ideal flatland setup
.. to fit this on your bike your bars, stem and fork have to be 2hip so my choice of products will be much smaller.
this wouldnt work for me
August 27th, 2008 at 7:41 am
dude i think that is bad ass. i think its a great idea and will save alot of head ache for me.
August 27th, 2008 at 9:46 am
I think the idea is that the technology could be licensed out like pivotals.
Since completes are making a big come back, this could easily be a standard feature o 2 hips bikes, which would REALLY be an incentive to buy a 2 hip complete.
August 27th, 2008 at 10:48 am
to be honest its such a stupid idea it looks friggin ugly as hell and who wants that for their bike for god sake think of an idea that looks good and makes a difference, the pivotal was a great idea for seats , dont try and twist it and turn it s you can use it for handlebars ron wilkerson your a TWAT - thanks
August 27th, 2008 at 3:01 pm
It’a a great idea for flatland.
Not so good for street/dirt/ramps…
August 27th, 2008 at 3:03 pm
dont like it.
August 27th, 2008 at 3:15 pm
I agree with the “slop” thing… i have ran 2 sets of profile cranks and 2-3 sets of odyssey thermal cranks and they have a similar spline design… all of them stretched out and eventually would never be able to be fully tight… there was always movement within the splines. Now i run primos with pinch bolts… no slpines = way better.
August 27th, 2008 at 4:01 pm
Ron W. is going to forever push the limits… he just doesnt stop. This is kickass great
August 27th, 2008 at 5:38 pm
i think that the idea is great but not practical. everyone would have to buy all three new parts. plus to start only one company will make it so you will have to go with them. the stem looks ugly as shit and so do the bars.
August 27th, 2008 at 6:58 pm
good idea - too bad it won’t work with my odyssey x-tro hub (90% of you won’t get it)
August 27th, 2008 at 9:23 pm
The aesthetic of that stem would never sell.
August 28th, 2008 at 12:09 am
Ron, this reminds me of the DK neck you broke off back in like 87′ down in Texas. All these fools need to do is bring back the bars with the knurling and the necks with the knurling. If you run a knurled neck and bars, there is no slip. Laser etched forks? WTF? If you can’t tell if your bars and forks are in alignment, then you probably just need to see the optometrist. Stuff needs to give a little. Plus, who is gonna make the compatible parts. Probably just 2-hip, huh? So, you’ll need 2-hip bars forks and a gooseneck. So like $200 cause you can’t figure out how to align your bars and fork. I think I’ll pass. Why not make the top of the fork square like the primo cranks? If it was an option for some die hard 2-hip fan that would want to run some heavy ass bar/fork combo, I guess that would be cool. Why even run a neck? Why not make a stem bar combo like the old vector bars Haro used to run? I think Ron ran those for a few as well. That would be “fixed” system. I am no engineer nor pose as one. But what I do know, stuff is gonna break and tweak if you build it like this. I slept in a Holiday Inn last night. so I know this. As far as the “new” pivotal… ah no.
August 28th, 2008 at 12:27 am
Found a pair of those Bob Haro Bars for sale. Kids, this is the lightest, biggest bar set up money can buy. Forget about those grand slam bars made by those ex-burnt out race dudes. No longer will you need bar extenders. Get yours here today!!!!
http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=180282305051
August 28th, 2008 at 12:38 am
Clean up the look and put it on the market. Give it 3 years and we’ll see if its going to measure up.
August 28th, 2008 at 7:16 am
looks rubbish, anyway i wouldn’t get it bcoz im used to my bars moving as i’ve had it for the past 4 years on my old racing bike. so i’de probably find this annoying
August 28th, 2008 at 11:20 am
i like the idea about making it easy to line everything up. but i agree that your bars slip for a reason- you landed too hard.
August 28th, 2008 at 6:13 pm
I rarely ever have my bars turn, if they are tight enough its not much of an issue…i’ve had handlebars bend and never had it move. so i’d much rather have the possibility of having to straighten my stem than have my stem crack and possibly fail catastrophically.
August 28th, 2008 at 11:34 pm
This is a solid idea. I can’t believe some people are bagging on it so hard. To suggest that your bars are supposed to move when you land hard is obsurd. To suggest that your bars moving from a hard landing is some sort of built in safety feature is even more laughable. If you think that it will be impossible to perfectly align the splines you know nothing about current manufacturing processes. Catastrophic failure? No self respecting bicycle manufacturer is going to put out a product intended for serious street abuse with that level of neglect. That is such an insult. If you knew anything about the history of the man and your sport you would not be making these statements aginst Ron.
August 29th, 2008 at 12:12 am
I don’t know about you guys saying your bars slipping, if you do them up properly they shouldn’t move. I see this as more of a way of needing less clamping area thus reducing the weight of the stem. As far as the splines being alinged properly I’m not sure, I had a pair of macniel forks with the internal I-beam thing and it was totally crooked so this idea could potentially cost a manufacture tons if they gotta send back a whole order. Could be good but it requires the rider to change the whole front end and commit to that brand, I dunno, I kinda like to run a couple different brands
August 30th, 2008 at 2:17 am
the slipping of bars on hard crashes is a good point because your bars dont usualy slip otherwise. however, if they were going to push with this idea there is a more cost effective and more adaptable (for people who cant fork out for the forks :P) way of doing this.
August 30th, 2008 at 11:35 am
I don’t think the idea is to have to buy a complete front end. I think this idea will take hold and become a standard or at least standard on the top end bikes in any give line up. A lot of the technology in todays bikes was at one point new and now comes standard on completes. Nearly all real bmx bikes now come with three piece cranks which at one time was a pretty signifigant upgrade. Stems used to use a wedge bolt inside a 1″ fork steer tube. Brakes used to be built in to the rear hub or at best were crappy side pull with no gyro option etc. All of these things used to move and / or bend which sucked. Trust me, it was not considered safer ore better to ride a crappy bike when that was all that was available. The front to back movement of bars is pretty much eliminated by a quality stem but the side to side still exists and eliminating it is a welcome idea.
August 30th, 2008 at 3:58 pm
This would absolutely amazing on a flatland bike. You’d strip the splines on the bars in a day on any other bike. However, this reminded me of an idea I had for a 0-degree offset bar/stem combo. Instead of any clamp bolts, the bars are held on by a special fork bolt. Anybody wanna help me otu with a prototype? Respond to me in a message here and I’ll email some sketches.
August 31st, 2008 at 9:54 am
Okay, a few things. Albert, the zero offset bars and stem has been done. Does anyone remember the Hoffman “Super Forks”. People went out and bought those…so yes, people would spend the money for a whole new front end. I respect Ron and 2-Hip…they have been doing this for a long time. I don’t know if this will work, but it’s great to see peoples minds still trying new ideas. Only time will tell if this will work. I say give a set to Sean Burns and let him send himself off a roof somewhere. If he doesn’t blow them up after a few months…then they are good to go.
August 31st, 2008 at 11:56 am
That thing sucks Ron. Bring back the bashgaurd like Subrosa. Oh and the big stickers you had in your spokes on your front wheel.
August 31st, 2008 at 2:54 pm
Why do you kids need this anyway? How can your bars slip on that foot tall pedal grind? Horrible idea. When you finally try something big, instead of your bars moving they are going to snap and stab you in the jugular. 2Hip is just trying to find something to patent and make money like macNeil did with the pivitol.
August 31st, 2008 at 10:20 pm
if the fork steerer had a wombolt style wedge system it would be better than splined. thats a fact
September 1st, 2008 at 12:41 am
heres a thought
just fucking tighten your stem
it will save you the 300 dollars 2hip will charge for this hideous looking horrible idea.
September 1st, 2008 at 4:00 am
Bahahaha those things are fucking gay!
September 1st, 2008 at 12:59 pm
sick idea but not practical and if some thing twists or bends your screwed good idea though
September 1st, 2008 at 1:11 pm
well it is a very interesting idea, but I can’t imagine it being price effective. To groove and spline everything takes more machining, and more machining will cost more. And I honestly don’t see the purpose, because my front end doesn’t move at all and i crash all the time on real big trails. But either way, I don’t want to be disrespectful. Some people will definetly buy them. Ron Wilkerson rocks!
September 1st, 2008 at 10:40 pm
this is a sample e.g. a prototype. who said that its going to look like that when they bring it to production.
also your shit if you can’t tighten your bars enough so they dont slip when you bail.
you are also fat if you strip splines on your cranks.
harden up. this is a great concept.
2hip is great. there is no way this is a bad idea
September 2nd, 2008 at 1:15 am
I’ll stick with what I have now. I dont like it, sorry.
September 3rd, 2008 at 9:41 pm
i say throw them on someone like morgan wade, van homan, or brian kachinsky’s bike and see if they hold up or what happens, roof drops and giant gaps may prove harmful to this design. i like to see the stem idea transfered to seatposts/seatclamp so that your seat is always straight. thats a less stressful spot on the bike.
September 4th, 2008 at 8:09 pm
From a more neutral point of view, this idea is not new, even less for serious Freestyle and/or Flat Land riders (It was attempted once back in 1988 by ESP Co, but with a very poor design)… Now, If your bike is properly assembled and you hit anything hard enough to get your handlebar out of position, big chances are you are bound to get hurt any way. Having loose handlebars to absorb some of the pressure to a point it will save you from major damage will limit you to not being able to do the serious tricks (So is kinda pathetic excuse)… From the Vintage perspective, Vector Bars (As innovative as they were back in the day) were replaced in a monthly bases (Bent all the time).
If this product (And the manufacturer) has the proper geometry in design (To be perfectly aligned) and a few stem and handlebar options were to be offered, I really believe 2 Hip would be into something here, and after talking to a few professional riders/manufacturers I know this product is on its way to be offered as licensed and stock issue in many new models for 2009.
September 4th, 2008 at 11:26 pm
That sounds amazing. But I think they should definantly make some splined bars that are two peice and come in a range of popular widths and heights. Such as the popular 8″ rise 28″width like i ride and many others do
September 16th, 2008 at 1:25 am
i personally dont like the set up.way funky lookin and not really nessecary (just my opinion). i think a thin knurling at the top of a fork might be functional…? what i would really like to see is the old supernatural fork stem combo!! i remember when i first got into bmx i wanted that set up soooo bad. 2-hip should come out with a updated version of the supernatural stem most definatly. i would absolutly get one!!
September 16th, 2008 at 12:59 pm
this is a terrible idea. when you slam hard, it’s nice to have a stem or fork that will shift a little. if there is no room for give, you stuff will just break, or break you.
it will also force you to buy a proprietary fork, stem and bars. the same could be said about Pivotal seats, but those were a good idea to start with.
November 30th, 2008 at 3:07 pm
As a mechanical engineer, I am not too fond of the idea. I like to be able to position my bars exactly where I want them. It is also limited in adjustability. Remember that for every one degree of rotation for inch of length, you can only adjust the bars .0175”, that’s assuming you have 100 splines on the bar. So on an 8.25 rise bar you are limited to plus or minus .144” or a little more that 1/8” either way. So assuming there are only 50 splines you would double that number. Just look when you install a set of splined cranks. Find the horizontal position then move the position one spline in either direction and see how far from horizontal they are and they are 7.5 degrees from spline to spline. You also now have to contend with a broached ID for the stem versus a machined and reamed fit. Wear on the keys from disassembly could be a problem over time. I would sooner have the bar and stem move, in the event of a impact, than take the chance of bending or stressing those components. I will stick with the old design myself. I like to ride downhill also and really never had a problem with my stem or bar moving when wrecking a 50-pound bike. The only thing I would add, and you don’t find it in BMX, is using an aluminum stem with an aluminum steer tube, the coefficient of friction between the similar materials, especially if it is coated, drops significantly and can slip easier.
April 13th, 2009 at 6:13 pm
this is a pretty stupid idea for 2 reasons
1) it would take the piss to get your bars perfecly in line on your steerer just like it takes the piss to get profile cranks horizontal.
2) what happens when someone leaves their stem too loose and the first hard landing they have strips every spline out of the stem and off the bars?
WHY DONT YOU PEOPLE THINK?!
September 15th, 2009 at 8:44 pm
seems kinda pointless. your going to have to buy a 2-hip step & fork to run this.
& how often do ur bars move ne ways?
but inovation is always progression…. so well see where it goes