Behind the Scenes: Joe Kid on a Sting-Ray

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• May 10 2005
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Trying to document the entire history of BMX in one movie is a monumental task, but Mark Eaton and John Swarr were up to the challenge.The Bang! Pictures guys spent two years of their life putting this film together, and it is incredible. The following is an interview with Eaton about the project, and for photos from the Hollywood premiere, keep an eye out for the August 2005 issue of Ride.

When did you first begin working on this project?
We first began developing the idea for the documentary in August of 2002. Large Ray Schletwag was bugging me to do a history of freestyle documentary, and when I talked to John Swarr (my business partner) about it, he said, “Let’s do the whole history of BMX.” I was like, “What? Are you nuts?” We didn’t even know the real history of BMX, so how could we make a movie about it? In October of 2002, we organized an old school BMX reunion in tandem with Ride magazine’s Interbike NORA Cup party. We created a teaser trailer, based on what we thought the film would be like, and showed it before Ride’s video premiered, to get the word out and show everyone what we were planning.

Everyone knows about your involvement in BMX, but can you fill us in on John Swarr’s role in BMX and in this project?
John grew up riding with Gary Pollak and the King of Prussia, PA, crew. We knew each other for a long time through riding. He was into production and editing a weekly show for the Philadelphia 76ers on Comcast. We worked together on videos and TV spots, and in 1999 we formed Bang! Pictures to have an actual production company that we could work under.

When you heard Stu Thompson say “Joe Kid on a Sting-Ray,” did you immediately know that was the name for the film? Did you have any other titles in mind?
Not initially. It was a thought once we had gone through the interviews and had the good sound bites lain out. I think the name seemed a little long to us at first, but then like everything in this film, it just evolved into something we liked.

How did Jesse James get involved? What was his role?
Jesse came on board late in the production through our friend Rockabilly Jay who worked at West Coast Choppers. We were looking for someone to do the narration who was well known and had some ties to the BMX scene. Jesse had raced BMX in the early 80s and totally dug the trailer, so he offered to do the narration for us, and then offered to be an executive producer and help us get this film out there. At that point the film’s momentum really took off.

How long did it take to complete?
The film took about two years to make because of research, tracking people down, and funding. Throughout most of the making of the film, we were working on other projects just to keep money coming in.

BMX in general is such a broad topic. How did you decide on which areas you wanted to concentrate?
The hard part was that we wanted to include everyone and everything. Unfortunately, this is a 90-minute movie, so there was no way that was going to happen. We had to stick to the most important information.

Did you know going in what you wanted to show the viewer, or did it take shape as you went?
We had an idea of how the main story was going to go, but once we had the interviews done, the individual stories really changed the main story as we learned firsthand a lot about different people and places. So we just prioritized all the stories and tried to fit as much of it in the final film.

How will the film be distributed? Do you have anything lined up yet?
We are currently negotiating with a few major distributors, and they will basically dictate if the film gets shown theatrically or not. Sometimes it’s just too expensive to release a small film in theaters due to all of the up-front costs and advertising it takes to promote it. DVD will be the main outlet.

When it is sold on DVD, what kind of extras can we expect?/b>
Now there’s a good one. We have so much content for this film leftover that we could have done ten documentaries on all the stories. You should expect a very loaded DVD when it comes out. We’ve also thought about releasing a “Collector’s Edition” for the BMX community with tons of bonus videos on it. Either way, the DVD will be packed with bonus videos and interviews.

How did you decide whom the people were that you wanted to interview for the project? Were some hard to convince, or was everyone into the idea?
Mostly everyone was really into it, but they gave us the “are you sure you want to do this project?” attitude, as if it were a lot of work to do for possibly a minimal return. We knew as long as we were passionate about the project, people would see that and have respect for what we were doing, and it worked. A lot of people went out of their way to help us throughout this project, and I think it’s because they wanted to see this project get done.

Where did you scrape all of that incredible old footage from? Was it ever a quality issue to reproduce it in this day and age?
A lot of the old racing footage came from Stu Thompsen’s Super 8 archives. Stu’s dad shot a lot of the races back then, so we basically had 14 hours of film just from Stu! The amount of footage we went through was crazy, because we’d often catch ourselves just sitting there watching the footage instead of looking for important clips that pertained to the stories. It was also very expensive to transfer all the footage that came in.

Did you have to deal with any legal issues to get permission to use the photos or old video clips?
We basically contacted everyone we could who may have had old footage or photos, and asked if we could use it in the film. Bob Osborn actually handed us his whole photo collection to keep, and we were like, “Do you have any idea how much this is worth?” We scanned them and sent them back. We also introduced Bob to vintagebmx.com, and he was like a kid in a candy store. He got totally into interacting with the old school BMX community.

Bob Osborn has been somewhat of a recluse since he left BMX. Was it difficult to get him involved?
Everyone told us that Bob Osborn was not going to be into it and that he was bitter about BMX. Mike Buff even had his contact info but wouldn’t give it to us for fear of pissing off Bob. We knew we needed Bob in the film. Both Bob & RL Osborn were the hardest people to track down for this film. After we did RL’s interview, we had Bob’s number and called him to hopefully set up an interview for the next day. I was totally nervous because of what I had heard. Bob turned out to be totally into it, and said he’d help us out for our “little video.”

Was clearing music for a project like this very difficult?
Yes, music clearance is tough, unless you’re not too concerned about what songs you want to use. For this film we wanted key songs that were pertinent to the 70s, 80s, and 90s. The music was to set a tone for the era, and we had a kick-ass soundtrack-until we found out that our soundtrack was going to cost $750,000. We immediately retreated and found bands that fit the music we needed, and we got hooked up with a music house called Extreme Music, which actually provided a lot of the music in the film. It worked out really well.

Did Spike Jonze’s background in the film world help out at all?
Spike is an old friend of mine from the Freestylin’ days, and I just wanted to keep him as “one of the guys” who contributed to BMX. I didn’t want to make a big deal out of it, and I also didn’t ask for any favors or connections. I was really psyched to see him at the premiere and hear his feedback on the film; it meant a lot to me.

How did you decide where to do the premiere?
Since 80% of the riders in the film are from SoCal, it made sense to have it somewhere that is easily accessible to them. And since we wanted to do something big, we started looking for a place in Hollywood to do it like a major movie premiere, and it definitely seemed like a big premiere. The event was everything I had dreamed it would be.

Did time constraints limit how in-depth you could go on any one time period?
Yes-because we were trying to stay under 90 minutes, we had to really edit things down to the meat of the stories. Most of the segments that are three minutes in the film started out as 30 minutes. That was tough, and John and I were very critical of each other’s work during this project, because we wanted it to be the best we’ve ever done.

Was there any footage that you weren’t able to get that you wanted to include?
There is still footage that I am trying to get to squeeze into this to make it better. This film has been evolving since our first cut that we submitted to Sundance in September of 2004. We’re on like version eight, and it just keeps getting better and better.

How many hours’ worth of interviews did you do, and how long was the editing process?
We did about 60 hours of interviews, and we edited about 100 days, working 14 hours a day. I’m used to grueling edit sessions to meet a deadline, but this was insane.

Was this project something you simply wanted to do, or something that you felt needed to be done?
It was both, actually. At first I was reluctant to do a documentary so similar to Dogtown so soon after its release. The last thing I wanted was for this to be a total copy of that film. I also felt that I needed to be the one who gets involved in this because of my history of videos in BMX. There are very few producers out there who could’ve done this project and had the support of the riders behind them. John and I both knew very well what we were in for, and we just stepped up and said, “We’re doing this!”

Were there things you learned while putting the film together that you never knew? And how were you able to distinguish between legend and fact?
There was a lot of info that we did not know. By putting all the interviews together, you can easily see the facts. When five different people tell you the same stories, it’s pretty clear what’s fact versus fiction.

Who were the sponsors of the premiere, and did you have any partners/sponsors for the film itself?
Since the film’s title is Joe Kid on a Sting-Ray, we thought Schwinn would be the ideal sponsor for both of us. When you first begin a project, it’s hard to really know what the final outcome will be. A lot of potential sponsors weren’t feeling this film. We knew this was going to be a bigger scale film than a BMX video, so we were trying to raise big money, and it just wasn’t happening. Schwinn offered a small sponsorship and Vans offered a small sponsorship with no stipulations on what we had to do for them. Steve VanDoren was supporting the film, and he hooked us up.

I’m sure you’re proud of the entire film, but are there any parts that are your favorites?
Every segment in the film has its importance in the history of BMX. I have some favorites, but they’re the ones that are closer to me or what I distinctly remember being involved in.

Did you finish the project because you were on a deadline, or did you get it to a point where you felt it was exactly where it needed to be?
A little bit of both, actually. There are a few things that I wish were in there, but didn’t make it in. We got to the point were we had to finish it.

How did you decide when to cut off the project as far as time periods?
We wanted to tell the story of how BMX evolved to where it is today. Everyone knows where BMX is today with all the media and TV coverage. We also didCal, it made sense to have it somewhere that is easily accessible to them. And since we wanted to do something big, we started looking for a place in Hollywood to do it like a major movie premiere, and it definitely seemed like a big premiere. The event was everything I had dreamed it would be.

Did time constraints limit how in-depth you could go on any one time period?
Yes-because we were trying to stay under 90 minutes, we had to really edit things down to the meat of the stories. Most of the segments that are three minutes in the film started out as 30 minutes. That was tough, and John and I were very critical of each other’s work during this project, because we wanted it to be the best we’ve ever done.

Was there any footage that you weren’t able to get that you wanted to include?
There is still footage that I am trying to get to squeeze into this to make it better. This film has been evolving since our first cut that we submitted to Sundance in September of 2004. We’re on like version eight, and it just keeps getting better and better.

How many hours’ worth of interviews did you do, and how long was the editing process?
We did about 60 hours of interviews, and we edited about 100 days, working 14 hours a day. I’m used to grueling edit sessions to meet a deadline, but this was insane.

Was this project something you simply wanted to do, or something that you felt needed to be done?
It was both, actually. At first I was reluctant to do a documentary so similar to Dogtown so soon after its release. The last thing I wanted was for this to be a total copy of that film. I also felt that I needed to be the one who gets involved in this because of my history of videos in BMX. There are very few producers out there who could’ve done this project and had the support of the riders behind them. John and I both knew very well what we were in for, and we just stepped up and said, “We’re doing this!”

Were there things you learned while putting the film together that you never knew? And how were you able to distinguish between legend and fact?
There was a lot of info that we did not know. By putting all the interviews together, you can easily see the facts. When five different people tell you the same stories, it’s pretty clear what’s fact versus fiction.

Who were the sponsors of the premiere, and did you have any partners/sponsors for the film itself?
Since the film’s title is Joe Kid on a Sting-Ray, we thought Schwinn would be the ideal sponsor for both of us. When you first begin a project, it’s hard to really know what the final outcome will be. A lot of potential sponsors weren’t feeling this film. We knew this was going to be a bigger scale film than a BMX video, so we were trying to raise big money, and it just wasn’t happening. Schwinn offered a small sponsorship and Vans offered a small sponsorship with no stipulations on what we had to do for them. Steve VanDoren was supporting the film, and he hooked us up.

I’m sure you’re proud of the entire film, but are there any parts that are your favorites?
Every segment in the film has its importance in the history of BMX. I have some favorites, but they’re the ones that are closer to me or what I distinctly remember being involved in.

Did you finish the project because you were on a deadline, or did you get it to a point where you felt it was exactly where it needed to be?
A little bit of both, actually. There are a few things that I wish were in there, but didn’t make it in. We got to the point were we had to finish it.

How did you decide when to cut off the project as far as time periods?
We wanted to tell the story of how BMX evolved to where it is today. Everyone knows where BMX is today with all the media and TV coverage. We also didn’t want the film to end on an exact date; just keep it vague yet still pertaining to what modern day BMX is.

Will bike shops ever be able to carry the film, or will it be headed to mainstream video stores only?
We still plan to distribute to the core action sports retailers no matter what other distribution deal is in place.

Were there other interviews that you wanted to do that didn’t happen?
Evil Knievel, Lenny Kravitz (raced on the JAG team), Bob Morales,McGoo, Mark Lewman, and Chris Moeller.

Do you ever see yourself making another BMX movie, or even Joe Kid part two?
Who knows? I didn’t think I was going to make Dorkin’ 2 let alone be where I am now!

Who would you like to thank?
We would like to thank all of the people who helped us along the way by contributing footage, photos, stories, or floor space. There is a long list of credits in this film, and I doubt we could ever thank everyone. Thanks to everyone who has supported BMX in some way over the past 35 years!

didn’t want the film to end on an exact date; just keep it vague yet still pertaining to what modern day BMX is.

Will bike shops ever be able to carry the film, or will it be headed to mainstream video stores only?
We still plan to distribute to the core action sports retailers no matter what other distribution deal is in place.

Were there other interviews that you wanted to do that didn’t happen?
Evil Knievel, Lenny Kravitz (raced on the JAG team), Bob Morales,McGoo, Mark Lewman, and Chris Moeller.

Do you ever see yourself making another BMX movie, or even Joe Kid part two?
Who knows? I didn’t think I was going to make Dorkin’ 2 let alone be where I am now!

Who would you like to thank?
We would like to thank all of the people who helped us along the way by contributing footage, photos, stories, or floor space. There is a long list of credits in this film, and I doubt we could ever thank everyone. Thanks to everyone who has supported BMX in some way over the past 35 years!